091 – Introducing James Kaleli Musyoka: Climatic Data Science for Agriculture

[00:00:00] David: Hi, and welcome to the IDEMS podcast. I’m David Stern, a founding director of IDEMS, and I’m here today with James Kaleli Musyoka, I should say Dr. James Kaleli Musyoka, an Impact Activation Postdoctoral Fellow, originally from Kenya, is now based in Finland and has joined IDEMS for almost a year now you’ve been with us. And it’s the first time I’ve got you on this podcast.

[00:00:33] James: It’s actually a year since I joined. I remember I joined, I think, probably starting on the 1st of September.

[00:00:40] David: 1st of September last year. Yes. And so it’s great, it’s great we’ve got you. It’s great I finally got you and we’re doing an episode together. My hope is this is going to be the first of many such episodes, but we shall see how it goes and how you feel about it.

[00:00:56] James: Yeah, I mean, it’s the first time for me so looking forward to this. Yeah.

[00:01:01] David: And we have a long history. We first met in 2008, back in Kenya at Maseno University, when, I suppose I should tell the story here because it’s the one where we have a slightly different story to tell on this. I was approached a few weeks after I joined Maseno University by my head of department who told me it’s very sad, we’re going to have to send our applied statistics master’s students home. And I said, that’s terrible, why?

And he said we don’t have enough people to teach them. And I said my father’s an applied statistician, I know a bit of statistics, would it help if I taught a course? I’m sure I could get his support to teach a course. He said, oh, that makes all the difference, they can stay.

Now, your version of this is slightly different, isn’t it?

[00:01:46] James: A little bit different, yeah. So I arrived in Maseno, I think almost the same time as you. And we probably met in the department. I think you were going out when I was coming in, or the other way around. And yeah, after settling in I was told the same thing that unfortunately we don’t have any lecturers available this semester. So you would have to go back and then we will call you when the lecturers are ready. So I guess you are the lecturer who then arrived, and you caused me to be called back.

[00:02:18] David: So you’d actually left.

[00:02:20] James: Yes, I’d actually left yeah, I’d actually left for a week, I think. When I got back the call that I should come back, yeah.

[00:02:26] David: Yeah. And this for me, I still remember our very early course where I was teaching you probability theory, which I’ve discussed with other lecturers. That’s just measure theory between zero and one, so it’s highly mathematical. And so we did a more measure theory approach for the first one or maybe even two lectures?

[00:02:44] James: No, it was actually, I think, actually three lectures by the time we were like realizing that this is not for us. I think, yeah, I think we were lost with those three lectures . Yeah, I think you had taken a more mathematical approach to the course, and that was difficult for us, I think, and that’s when we raised the concern with you, I don’t think we are following what you’re teaching here.

[00:03:07] David: And more than that, you then told me that you’re not using computers in any of your other courses.

[00:03:12] James: Yeah, we have not used computers in our undergraduates for the four years.

[00:03:14] David: Or even in the postgraduate, in the other master’s courses, you’re doing a master’s in applied statistics without using statistical software.

[00:03:23] James: Exactly, yeah.

[00:03:25] David: And so the rest of that course we then did based on using statistical software, understanding probability theory from the aspect of looking at data and understanding probability distributions and so on. And that was my first experience sort of innovating in education, and understanding how to adapt the teaching to what was needed and what was useful.

And then, of course, you, at that point, then got sucked in to a number of other elements of teaching. We co taught a class together on ANOVA. You also did the Statistics Made Simple (SMS) course, which then transformed, I think, some of your thinking, and then you became the facilitator of that.

[00:04:08] James: Actually, I think it’s from the probability class. I think once we used computers, I understood a lot of things, especially the distributions. I think I just went through that in the undergraduate degree without really understanding. And so I think from the experience of using computers I really understood the concepts much better.

And then I think from there, then the SMS followed up to that. And I think it’s after the SMS that really my eyes were opened to see how computers can really help statistics students to understand what they are doing and what they are learning.

And then I think it’s from that, that I was now more confident to co teach the course with you on ANOVA. But I had done the ANOVA course as a student.

[00:04:49] David: Yeah.

[00:04:50] James: Yeah. And that was an extra sort of experience using computers, you know, learning. Therefore then I was confident to be involved in the teaching. And then coming back to being a facilitator in the SMS course, which did we have Maseno students later?

[00:05:06] David: I think the first time you did it, you had people from all over, didn’t you? Wasn’t this the one that then led to the e-campus?

[00:05:14] James: Yes. I think this is the one that then led to the one that was organised within Maseno University. Yeah.

[00:05:20] David: Yeah, and then that led to Maseno’s eCampus because the vice chancellor came and said, what, we can give these courses online? Great, let’s open an eCampus and give degrees online. That was a whole nother challenge, we could spend a whole episode discussing some of these bits.

But I guess it’s worth then maybe going a little bit on your own journey then. You made the brave decision, we had long discussions before you started your PhD, about, should you go out for your PhD? Most of your colleagues were going out to do international PhDs at that time. And you made the decision, which I’ve always admired, that you wanted to do a good PhD locally. You did get opportunities to go outside and visit, particularly Reading University, you were there I think twice during your PhD program, as a sort of visitor. Was it two or three times, sorry?

[00:06:10] James: I think it was three times. I think it was in the first three years I went, I had that experience during the summer, going out to interact with people in Reading. So there was that international component in my PhD, but yes, my PhD was local.

[00:06:22] David: Yeah, and not only was it local, but of course you were employed by the university as a lecturer while you were doing it.

[00:06:30] James: Yes, I was a tutorial fellow, so I was doing both the teaching and the PhD at the same time. And yeah, there was a lot of pressure then to keep the two going.

[00:06:39] David: Yeah.

[00:06:40] James: But I think we all agree in the end it was quite a, I think a very useful experience.

[00:06:46] David: And before you graduated, you’d also managed a number of research grants because you took over, when I left, you took over the research grants I was managing.

[00:06:55] James: Yes, after you left, yeah, then I had that opportunity to step up and manage those grants. So I was able to build on those skills of grant management, project management, yeah, within the university. I don’t think I would have been able to, I would have had that opportunity if I had gone out. So I think, yeah, doing the PhD in Maseno enabled me to have those opportunities to build these other skills.

[00:07:22] David: And this is something where your experience there has been so influential in my thinking, because it’s true, your research did suffer. I think it’s fair to say that, but if you’d been doing an international PhD, you would have had more and better research publications, the depth on the research would have been deeper. But the breadth of your experience, on balance, you were recently the vice president of the International Association of Statistics Education, and that would never have happened without you staying and you continuing your teaching and publishing in education, which we’ve done together quite a bit, and innovating in that space.

As you mentioned, when the opportunities you had by staying within, your colleagues who went out and came back, you also noticed there that there was a disconnect.

[00:08:18] James: Yeah, when they came back, yeah, there was that challenge to fit in. Yeah, for them, I think it took some time for some of them to settle back in. And yeah, I think partly because of the culture, I think, culture differences. Yeah, the challenges, I think they came back to meet challenges which they were not exposed to, or they didn’t experience those challenges in the environment they were coming from.

And yeah, I think there was that aspect for them. For me, I think because I did a PhD locally, I think I was already in that environment and I’d already adjusted, found a way of being productive in that environment.

[00:08:54] David: Yeah, that’s right and I think this is something where I really believe that there was value. And also there was value in you actually trying to do a good thesis locally, which was something where this was really challenging, but I think, I’m pretty proud of the work that you did. It’s led to other work. It’s led to what you’re doing now.

And I suppose we should just mention a bit then about your recent role is really around, following on from your PhD, historical climatic data, satellite data, analysing, I suppose, in particular the data for PICSA, this Participatory Integrated Climate Services for Agriculture. You’ve come in and played a really lead role in this work.

[00:09:38] James: Yeah, this has been sort of the work, a continuation of the work that I was doing for my PhD. It’s really been yeah, I think satisfying for me to continue to do this, and it’s really been interesting working with the met services sort of in Africa, to help them, to support them, to make sense of their data. I think, yeah, from that PhD, this has really helped me to step into this role.

[00:10:01] David: And let’s just talk a little bit about that role. You’ve just come back from a trip to Zambia and then Malawi.

[00:10:08] James: Yes.

[00:10:09] David: Where you were basically supporting the met services, training them to use their data, to get their data ready, and to integrate it, to analyse it, and then integrate it into these climate services.

[00:10:23] James: Yes. What we were doing in Malawi is basically, supporting them to take their historical data, make use of it. For most of these services, they don’t really make use of their historical data. They really focus on the seasonal forecasts. It’s been a week in each country trying to build the skills, the data skills, helping them to look more into their data, historical data, and trying to produce the information that farmers and extension services staff would need to help farmers to make farming decisions.

And so that’s what we’ve been doing in Malawi and in Zambia. And there is scope for more work in the same countries, for the rest of the year. There is still a lot to do in that area with the met services. And in many other countries, we are looking forward to visiting soon, just to work with them on their data.

[00:11:11] David: It’s not just looking forward to visiting them soon. Where have you been in the last year? You’ve been to not just Zambia and Malawi, you’ve been, where else?

[00:11:20] James: Before Zambia and Malawi, there was Kyrgyzstan.

[00:11:24] David: Kyrgyzstan, yes.

[00:11:25] James: That was a week again, of working with the met services there, trying to produce the summaries and the climate information from their historical data for this purpose. And I’ve been in Zambia and Malawi before this.

[00:11:39] David: That’s true, yeah, you’ve been there before.

[00:11:42] James: And even before working with IDEMS or before joining IDEMS. Yeah, I’ve been to Mozambique, Tanzania and many other countries for this.

[00:11:49] David: In the same line of work, which is the reason you were able to come in. And I think you have Uganda on the horizon soon, Bangladesh, although I don’t think you’re going to Bangladesh.

[00:12:00] James: No, I think my colleague Roger will be going there. But that’s all right, these are the same sort of things, so we work together on this. So there’s Uganda, and Seychelles is also on the horizon, yeah. And Eswatini.

[00:12:14] David: Oh, of course, Eswatini, yes, you’re doing that in about a month’s time.

[00:12:18] James: Yes. So there’s Eswatini asking for the same sort of support.

[00:12:23] David: And what I think, from my perspective, so satisfying on this with the way you’ve actually got into this work since joining a year ago, is that you’ve really made it your own. This is something where the role you’re playing now, this is a role where, of course, you’ve been mentored, there’s been part of the team who you’ve gained from, you’ve grown immensely this year, I think, but this is really becoming an area where, actually, there aren’t other people doing what you’re doing.

You’ve got a, it’s not really a research area, it really is an area of support. This is what you’re doing. You’re going in and supporting where there is a demand, there’s a need, and it’s a unique need that you seem to be setting yourself up to really make a difference, in these met services in particular.

[00:13:11] James: And yeah, I didn’t imagine that there was such needs. So it’s really been interesting providing that kind of support. And yeah it’s not very hard actually. It’s not a very difficult area, but it’s really needed and it’s really useful.

[00:13:25] David: So let’s just clarify, if you have a PhD in statistics and you’re going in to work on the data, it’s not that hard. And other people do find it quite challenging. But I think the point is that actually, this isn’t always cutting edge research. What you’re needing to do, the needs, from a statistics perspective, from a data science specialist, because you don’t just do statistics now, you’ve got involved in data science training in a number of different ways. But in terms of the complexity, it’s not hard stuff, but it’s needed.

[00:13:58] James: Yes. It’s more about, I think, applying.

[00:14:01] David: Yeah.

[00:14:02] James: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it’s more about applying the statistical skills to this data. So I think, yeah going back, I now appreciate the opportunity to the way that, you know, the aspect of bringing in computers into my learning experience at the MSc level, I think has contributed to me being able to do this kind of work. So through that, education, through that learning experience, I’ve been able to build these practical skills that are needed to do this kind of work.

[00:14:32] David: Just to clarify on that, that’s another area of passion you have, that you’ve been, as I mentioned before, the Vice President of the International Association of Statistics Education, Statistical Education, I should say.

[00:14:44] James: Yeah.

[00:14:45] David: And you’ve really tried to pave the way for others to teach in these different ways, to teach using data in general in these different ways.

[00:14:56] James: Yes. Yeah, that’s the thing from my experience. I think I developed a passion to improve the way statistics is being taught. I wanted to be part of the change, I was keen to bring the change into the teaching of statistics so that future students in the discipline are not taught the way I was taught. Bringing in computers.

And now I’ve been involved in, I was involved before joining IDEMS of course in the use of STACK to improve the assessments, creating opportunities for students to improve their learning of statistics. Yeah, so this is another area that I would like to keep working on.

[00:15:31] David: Yeah, for listeners who haven’t heard of STACK before, there’s been a previous episode with Chris Sangwin about STACK itself. And what James hasn’t mentioned is that his work actually using STACK has pushed STACK and the development of STACK because it’s pushed the boundaries of how you use STACK for statistics and data science. There’s actually a whole set of work within IDEMS now, which has grown out of your innovations at Maseno University using STACK for these data visualisation questions, and so on, which have challenged what’s needed. And yeah, this has been very influential in a number of different ways.

I’m conscious we’re almost at the end of our time, but I didn’t want to finish this first one without sort of at least mentioning you’re in Finland because your wife has a postdoc there and you are following her and you’ve used this to open up your own experiences.

So I’d like to just hear from you about your experience over the last year. You know, you came in at a time where it really helped us at IDEMS, your fellowship, I don’t know what we’d have done without you. But it lined up because you were finally ready to take a leave of absence from Maseno University where you’ve been working for a long time, get outside experience, and really be based somewhere else. But now you’re working remotely. You followed your wife to one of the coldest countries in the world. And what’s that experience been like?

[00:17:08] James: It’s really been good. Let me say so. I arrived in Finland when it was the coldest time of the year, yeah, in January. Looking back it’s really been timely, this kind of move. I didn’t know that, at that point, that I was ready to move, IDEMS really needed my skills and my services. So it was really timely, I think. Very nice coincidence.

It’s been different working for IDEMS. My experience over the year has been, I think I’ve had to step up a lot in terms of the work, the kind of expectation in IDEMS is different from the kind of expectation that was in Maseno in my workplace. It’s been a very different kind of work as well. In Maseno it was really teaching and training and here it’s been really not much of that. There is aspects of that, but working with people with different skills in different parts of the world.

And this kind of work yeah, I’ve just been working on the climate stuff primarily. So it’s really been different. I’ve had to learn. But there’s been a lot of support and I think it’s been fun so far and I’m looking forward to learning more new things because I think in this environment there’s a lot to learn and a lot to give as well. Yeah, looking forward.

[00:18:14] David: Well, I mean, the way you mentioned how much you feel you’ve stepped up, and I can confirm that I was nervous because we took you on at a time where we had a real need related to the climate work and we were giving you this postdoctoral fellowship but actually you needed to step up because we needed that work done.

And so you were stepping into a more high pressured fellowship than we would normally offer. But you really rose to the task and I can’t commend you enough for how well you’ve grown into that task.

[00:18:49] James: Yeah, I think it’s been more, yeah, largely successful because of your support as well.

[00:18:54] David: It’s not really my support, it’s our support as a team, I agree.

[00:18:58] James: Exactly, yeah. I remember you mentioned high pressure and I remember coming in and there was a lot of contracts, work that was really, sort of, back, yeah, it’s just to deliver on contracts and work, which was behind schedule in many ways.

[00:19:13] David: We’d had, because of illnesses within the team, we’d had this backlog, which had built up and when we brought you in, you had a skill set where I thought there’s a chance that you’ll be able to rise to this. And you did. It was exactly what we needed. And you’ve basically cleared out that backlog. The work is now on track very much in different ways. And you’re stepping into a role where, this is where I’m really, I’m looking forward to see what happens next.

[00:19:41] James: Yeah, me too.

[00:19:44] David: Great, this has been fun. And as I say, my hope is this is the first of many. It’s been an introduction to, if we have regular listeners, to our listeners, to you, but my hope is you now might be a regular feature in a number of episodes to come. So thank you.

[00:19:59] James: I’m looking forward. I’m looking forward, yeah, this has been fun. Yeah, first experience. It’s been fun. Yeah. So looking forward to many more podcasts.

[00:20:06] David: Okay, thank you and speak to you soon.

[00:20:11] James: Thank you, David.